The Fightins'
Feb
18
2010
UPDATED: Johan Santana is a Cock
Posted by at 3:43 pm ET 205 Comments

I know no one wants to hear about the Mets any more than they absolutely have to, but this is something that has to be put out there and will be the last of the Mets talk I promise. Recently in an interview with The Sporting News Roy Halladay was asked who the best pitcher in the NL East was. Here was his response:

“I’d never vote for myself,” Halladay, 32, told the magazine when asked whether he was the best pitcher in the NL East.

He said New York Mets lefthander Johan Santana”has always been fun to watch. The way Cole pitched in the playoffs a couple of years ago and at times last year, I think he’s up there. Some of the Marlins’ younger guys are scary - Josh Johnson. There’s a lot of talent.”

Notice no mention of himself. Halladay prefers his talking to be done on the field, unlike one of the pitchers he had just complimented, one Johan Santana. According to Brian Costa, Mets beat writer for the Star Ledger, when asked the same question Santana had this to say:

“Santana”

Nice. Now please follow me ATJ for more proof than you actually need as to why Halladay is, in fact, the better pitcher.

When comparing any two players it is best to use the previous three years as a comparison. So first I will go through a couple stats that most of you either don’t understand or don’t care to understand.

First is their average WAR (Wins Above Replacement) over the past three years:

Roy Halladay – 6.8

Johan Santana – 4.1

So over the past three years Halladay has been worth about 2.7 more wins than Blohan.

Next I’ll use FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) this basically shows what the pitcher’s ERA would have been had they had the same defense playing behind them. Here is their average FIP over the past 3 years:

Roy Halladay – 3.21 ERA

Johan Santana – 3.71 ERA

Once again Halladay comes out on top.

Now for conventional stats that you’re more used to so I’m not accused of making shit up to get my point across.

Average ERA over the past three years:

Roy Halladay – 3.09 ERA

Johan Santana – 3.00 ERA

So here Santana narrowly edges Halladay, but it should be taken into account that two of the last three years Santana moved to the weaker National League and before that was in a weak AL Central division. While Halladay spent the last three years pitching in the stacked AL East.

Average amount of wins per year of the last three years:

Roy Halladay – 17.6 Wins

Johan Santana – 14.6 Wins

I absolutely HATE using wins to measure anything but again this is just to satisfy anyone who hates any type of new statistic.

I haven’t quite perfected the measurement of WPFH (Wins Per Facial Hair) yet, but I’m assuming Halladay comes out the victor in that one as well.

Anyway, let the flaming of this post BEGIN!

UPDATE:

Todd Zolecki has the quote from Halladay today on Santana’s comment of being the best pitcher in the NL East:

Roy Halladay, on Santana’s comments that he’s best:”I think it was a Lou Holtz quote, ‘Well done is always more important than well said.’”

Uhm, yea

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  • Cola Classic

    wow.

  • http://twitter.com/Gaze_NJ Gaze_NJ

    Glad Santana’s been working on his comedy routine. By the end of July the Mets will be so far out of it that he can start hitting the club circuit working standup.

  • http://www.fireandyreidnow.blogspot.com JFein

    The title says Santana is a cock but the picture says he is a douche. Which one is he? Make up your fucking mind!

  • will.H

    the forced “im so confident” attitude in an athlete is a little boring sometimes. Santana is.. was a hell of a pitcher. After his coach ruined him the year the mets had no bullpen, he hasn’t been the same. I can’t wait until a Mets troll sees this headline and starts dropping tears all over the blog. Maybe one fan might finally realize their team is full of embarrassing personalities.

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    The real question is, what will it take to humble those queens in NY? The more they’re embarrassed, the cockier they get.

  • http://phillieslongdrive.wordpress.com/ Chris

    @JFein He is both, obviously.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Good comparison, love to see FIP and WAR get some love.

  • http://www.phoulballz.com Jay Ballz

    Great post, Chris.

  • ryanhowardsdongspeaks

    he is douchebag cock.

  • Joe D

    Oh yeah FIP gets my rocks off.

  • theKrisheim

    santana is a better lifetime pitcher, but right now id rather have roy, especially with johan coming off surgery

    and the complete games are a bonus now

  • Cola Classic

    From that same article:

    “On the state of his surgically repaired elbow:
    ‘Well, I can straighten my arm, for sure. I feel good. The range of motion is back [...] Just to feel good, and knowing that my elbow is healthy is a good sign.’ ”

    He better have good use of that elbow – he’s going to need it to jerk off to his tv when Halladay is lights out in October. I’m going to turn my attention to the Braves because these guys are obviously a fucking joke.

  • http://phillieslongdrive.wordpress.com/ Chris

    Wow, I completely forgot about complete games over the past three years…

    Roy Halladay – 25

    Johan Santana – 4

    Owned.

  • maxL

    @Phylan

    Actually I recently read about the shortcomings of FIP and how Baseball Prospectus has come up with yet another fun acronym-licious stat for the George Wills of the world to ignore:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10027

  • Bobby D

    this coming from the guy who’s probably heading into another injury shortened season in which he’ll be battery mates with…..um…..chris coste, omir santos, josh….thole? henry blanco??? what a cluster fuck. i heard they’re trying to convince rod barajas to take payment in canadian tire money.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    @maxL yeah, SIERA is definitely interesting, particularly that they now use plate appearances, and have tweaked the fuck out of the groundball component. That and tERA (Fangraphs.com) are pretty much the new hotness. I’m usually not an early adopter with these sorts of things though. FIP and xFIP have worked just fine for me for a long time.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Also a lot of the math there is above my head, I’m going to need to read that like 10 more times

  • Joe D

    OMG tERA!

  • Eric

    Phylan, surely you jest. Nothing can be over your head. You gonna make it down to ST?

  • PhillyCuban

    Its still comparing apples and oranges

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    @Eric unfortunately no, having neither the money or vacation days. Nats park on opening day will have to be my first live baseball of the year.

  • maxL

    @Phylan

    Yeah, I’m not sure I completely understand all the details yet, but I do like that they’ve devalued HR/FB and tweaked GB impact. Baseball Prospectus can be a bit… loquacious.

  • Blaise

    Fuck the Mets. Halladay will win his first ring next year, Johan can go fuck himself.

  • World Forking Champions ’11

    Forget the ring, I would be content seeing Halladay have a better season than Santana and hopefully winning a Cy Young!

  • bigmyc

    Yeah, that’s nice and all, but I didn’t really need all the stats to know that Doc is a better baller than Senor Mas Macho.

    We’ll have all the head to head action this season to prove it.

  • Brettymz

    I can see Roy outdueling Santana in a cockfight

  • World Forking Champions ’11

    I am sure Roy’s is longer, which would explain why Santana is trying to overcompensate for his lack of length.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Funny how Halladay failed to mention Jair Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson. Hell, it can be argued that Jurrjens had a better year than Halladay in 2009.

    And who cares if Santana listed himself? I doubt he was anywhere close to as serious as you guys are making him out to be, regarding the comment.

    What is it with the Phillies/Mets rivalry crap? The Mets won’t contend this year, so wouldn’t it make more sense to try and create some sort of rivalry with the Braves and/or Marlins?

    At least this blog isn’t nearly as homer-esque as Crashburn Alley though. Those idiots actually claimed that the Phillies rotation in 09 was the best in the NL East.

  • Argive

    Another issue: Johan referred to himself in the third person. That’s kind of a dick move, unless you’re Rickey Henderson. Johan Santana ain’t no Rickey.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Can’t wait for the season to start. The Braves look to be in good shape and on paper, their best team in years. It’s gonna be exciting to see the matchups with the Phillies.

  • maxL

    Jairj Jurrjensj was lucky last year. Roy Halladay is a FUCKING AMAZING PITCHER. There’s a bit of a difference.

  • Undocorkscrew

    [quote]I can’t wait until a Mets troll sees this headline and starts dropping tears all over the blog. [/quote]

    Kinda like how a particular Philly fan is making a fuss over a comment that probably wasn’t serious in the first place?

  • Watrick

    I’m thinking the Marlins might end up in 2nd, Braves 3rd, Nationals 4th, and Mets 5th. The Nationals have impressed me enough to make me think they won’t be in the cellar at the end of the year.

  • Undocorkscrew

    maxL….

    I’m not claiming Jurrjens is the better pitcher. That would be completely insane to say. Just thought it was interesting that Halladay left those two guys off the list, that’s all.

    And I don’t want to hear this ‘luck’ crap either. The guy has made around 65 big-league starts with an ERA of around 3.10. His BB/K has been weak since his first year in the minors, yet he’s had about the same success at every level.

    I guess Hanson’s season was luck as well.

  • maxL

    Did I say that Hanson’s was luck? No, I didn’t. I merely said it was lucky because I wanted to save you the long ass, stat-laden explanation why.

    And I’ll save myself some time by linking someone who did a better job than I ever could:
    http://310tojoba.blogspot.com/2010/02/mixed-bag-that-is-jair-jurrjens-also.html

  • Undocorkscrew

    Braves 3rd……? It’s possible, but I don’t see it.

    After trading Frenchy, giving Diaz the full-time job in right, and giving Prado the full-time job at 2B…..the Braves took off last season. It can be argued that in the 2nd half, the Braves offense outperformed the Phillies. Obviously their starting pitching was better, but the offense really took off after those changes.

    And now the offense is improved even more and here’s why:

    Melky/Diaz platoon in left>Garret Anderson
    Full season of Prado>Kelly Johnson
    Jason Heyward>Frenchy
    Full year of McLouth>Schafer
    Glaus>Kotchman

    And Chipper can’t possibly be worse than last year. He’s got a bit more protection in the lineup now and should be able to bounce back, if healthy. McCann and McLouth were also battling vision problems for much of the year in 09, and they both seem to have corrected it now.

    Of course, the staff took a bit of a hit with the departure of Vazquez, but they’re essentially replacing Vazquez with Hudson, and if he can stay healthy……he’ll be fine.

    Of course they have health concerns at key positions, but so do a lot of teams. If they can stay healthy enough, I see no reason the Braves can’t snag the WC.

    In any case, it’s gonna be a fun season.

  • Undocorkscrew

    [quote]If we look at the new SIERA statistic (which I had to calculate myself so there’s a chance this might be totally wrong and everything henceforth is totally irrelevant), you have to wonder just how much Jurrjens should be relied upon.[/quote]

    LOL, I’m really convinced.

    I’m sure luck had something to do with it, but he had the 3rd lowest ERA in the NL. Sheer luck didn’t make that happen. I don’t expect him to be a true ace, but I think he can maintain an ERA of around 3.60.

    I mean, he gave up 2 runs or fewer in 26 of his 34 starts last season. He also had 29 ‘quality starts’ out of his 34. Maybe he got lucky, but I think it’s being made too big of a deal about.

  • maxL

    No, you’re right, good defense (which the pitcher does not affect) also played an important role in that.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Call me crazy, but the Braves had AWFUL outfield defense all around last season. Chipper had a horrible year at 3rd. Kelly Johnson stunk it up for half a season, then Prado(who’s average defensively) took over. McCann had his worst year behind the plate. The only consistent defense that team got was from the 1st base position(Kotchman/LaRoche) and at times, SS.

  • Undocorkscrew

    …..but I guess they magically got better when Jurrjens was on the mound.

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    The Braves worry me more than any other NL East team. But at the same time I don’t see them winning the NL East. I do however see them taking the WC.

  • http://www.defendbroadstreet.wordpress.com Matt

    Best pitcher in the NL East? Tyler Walker.

  • Ricky Otero

    I feel as though that Billy Wagner is being overlooked amongst everyone.

  • Droppin Fuckin Gloads

    Roy Halladay is wrong. The best pitcher in the NL East… is Roy Halladay.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    @Undocorkscrew I don’t want to knock Jurrjens too hard because he’s a fine young starter, but take a look at these peripherals:

    player a: 4.49 xFIP, .270 BABIP, 85.2% LOB, 6.45 K/9
    player b: 4.34 xFIP, .273 BABIP, 79.4% LOB, 6.38 K/9

    Both of these players posted an ERA under 3 this year, and anyone that looks at this would say “Jesus A. Hitler Christ, both of these guys are going to have a significant regression this year.” And they will, but both of them are still valuable 4ish starter guys, and solid pitchers. B is Jurrjens, and probably everyone and their mother on this board can tell you who A is.

    And sorry, but I do have to give the starting rotation edge to the Phillies if only for the top 2, although feel free to break it down for me. I do think the Braves will probably take the wild card.

  • Brettymz

    Whoever said Tyler Walker just took the words out of my mouth.

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    Not to mention, he always looks like he’s rocking some Bea Arthur shoulder pads when in uniform.

  • Cowbell Kid

    Suckers. The Rays have the best rotation in baseball and that includes the NL East. The Rays are coming back hard this year and no scrub from Toronto is going to change that, you faggots.

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    ^^^

    LOL.

  • Tommy

    Holy shit. A Rays troll? Did you ride in on a unicorn?

  • http://twitter.com/dingdong1003 John Kruk’s Lonely Nut

    Hey Cowbell, can you still taste our asses from ’08 you silly goose?

  • John K

    maybe he was talking about ervin

  • will.H

    cowbell kid is getting less interesting, and thats bad news for someone who was boring from the start. oh and keep forcing your awkwardness on your kids.. make them wear wigs like you did before.. awesome dad.

  • Cowbell Kid

    Carl Crawford motherfuckers!

  • Watrick

    So, now we know that Sanata is a douche and a cock, and that Carl Crawford is a motherfucker. This blog is so enlightening.

  • Ozzie Virgil’s Beard

    “I’m Carl Crawford and I’m batting left field.”

  • Undocorkscrew

    @Phylan…

    Thanks for the reasonable reply.

    I’m guessing it’s Happ? Anyway, both will probably regress a bit. But I heard the EXACT same thing after Jurrjens rookie year in 08, which coincidentally was the same time I started paying attention to Sabermetrics. I’m not knocking the system, but for me it’s been…….unreliable, at least so far. Watching a player perform and using the stats MLB recognizes now has worked for me for years.

    As for who has the best rotation this year? Who knows? The Braves have the edge in the depth department, but the Phillies do have a pretty strong 1-4. But I was referring Crashburn Alley saying that the Phillies had the edge LAST year, which is just ridiculous.

    Maybe it’s bias, but I still favor the Braves rotation over the Phillies. Of course, there are question marks regarding both staffs. Will Hudson stay healthy? Can Lowe bounce back? Can Hamels bounce back? Can Happ maintain his numbers? Who’s starter #5?

    Personally, I’m not worried about Hudson’s health. I think he’ll be just fine. Lowe can’t possibly be any worse than he was last year(actually, take away his 3 worst starts and he had an ERA of around 3.70). Jurrjens may regress, but he’ll put up good numbers. Hanson is a beast, who I expect to improve even more.

  • Sal Fasono’s Beard

    @Ozzie Virgil’s Beard

    Yeah that’s fine, just take my idea for a name… It’s not like I came up with it or anything.

  • Watrick

    Oh no! A beard off! This shit can get out of hand quick, I’ve heard.

  • Sal Fasano’s Beard

    Ozzie Virgil’s beard is equivalent to a thirteen year old boy when compared to the great Sal Fasano.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Rays + Braves Trolls = No more Mets trolls?

    I’d take that. Maybe they’re all still busy digging their heads out of the sand they buried ‘em in last season.

    Also, LOL @ Braves & Rays fans

  • Undocorkscrew

    So, I’m a ‘troll’ because I’m a Braves fan posting on a Phillies blog. Yahoo Sports linked me to this blog and article, because I found the headline pretty hilarious. I find it hilarious that a respected blog is clearly taking offense to a comment Johan Santana made. Maybe I’m not reading too much into it, because I’m pretty confident he wasn’t being entirely serious.

    But I guess I’m a troll because I’m not listing any FIP, MOP, GIP, BAFTA, SAG, PIP, or +/-WAR to the 3rd power, to back up that claim.

  • Undocorkscrew

    ….and why no article on Hamels taking ‘arm strengthening tips’ from Mark Prior?

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Yes. You are a troll because you are a Braves fan posting on a Phillies blog, specifically with the intent of cutting into its content.

    That, in turn, could also make you a douche.

  • don

    Undocorkscrew clicking this link will help you understand this site better.

    http://www.thefightins.com/tug-haines/what-really-happened-to-brett-myers/

  • Undocorkscrew

    If you say so, Heathcliff. When Yahoo Sports links a blog and people visit that blog, if you post you’re a troll?

    As far as ‘cutting into it’s content,’ I was merely pointing out that I thought it was hilarious. It seems to me that you can’t take criticism, and anybody who gives it is automatically labeled a ‘troll.’

    So again, at least this blog is more relevant(and humorous) than Crashburn Alley.

    @don…….thanks for that. Pretty funny stuff.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Perhaps I misread you a bit, but that still doesn’t change the fact that you’re a troll.

    Who’s having trouble taking criticism?

  • maxL

    @Undocorkscrew

    Another shining example of the content on this blog:

    http://www.thefightins.com/meechone/just-your-typical-tuesday-night-at-the-bank/

  • Watrick

    I’d have to say that because Sal Fasano kind of sucked, I’ll take Ozzie’s beard. A handle bar isn’t a beard, anyway.

  • http://www.thefightins.com meech.one

    Undocorkscrew: as the head shit over here at The Fightins, I just wanna let you know you are more than welcome in the comments section whenever you please.

    If you can withstand the initial wave of ball-busting, it’s usually smooth sailing from there.

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    “No, I steer clear of that. I think it was a Lou Holtz quote, ‘Well done is always more important than well said.’ I’ve always tried to take that philosophy. I try to stay out of those things as much as possible.”

    Suck it* Santana.

    *David Wright’s vagina.

  • Joe D

    Roy Halladay just took a runny dump on Johan.

  • Jack Handey

    At first I thought, if I were Superman, a perfect secret identity would be “Clark Kent, Dentist,” because you could save money on tooth X-rays. But then I thought, if a patient said, “How’s my back tooth?” and you just looked at it with your X-ray vision and said, “Oh it’s okay,” then the patient would probably say, “Aren’t you going to take an X-ray, stupid?” and you’d say, “Aw fuck you, get outta here,” and then he probably wouldn’t even pay his bill.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    @Undocorkscrew – meech is spot on there. Trolls (especially those who root for crappy teams like the Braves) are fun to kick around for a while. Then we realize the trolls need love too. There is evidence of this – even some Yankee trolls were “embraced” during the World Series.

    @meech – how does a head shit differ from a shit head?

  • Shane’s beard

    Johan has a sense of humor.

  • Undocorkscrew

    You mean the same crappy team(Braves) who outproduced the Phillies offensively in the 2nd half, and outside of homers, could outproduce them for the entire 2010 season? The Braves team with the superior starting staff in 09, and likely 2010?

    Or how about the Braves teams that won 14 consecutive division titles? Look, the Phillies have had tremendous success these past 2 years and I understand the big heads, it’s deserved. And I understand the reaction you’re trying to get, and I may as well play along:

    Since 1994:

    Playoff appearances: Phillies 3, Braves 11
    Pennants: Phillies 2, Braves 3
    WS wins: Phillies 1, Braves 1

    2010 is shaping up to be the return of the Braves. Go on and act like they’ll be sending a bad team out there if you want, but the offense is now improved and that was all the team was lacking.

  • will.H

    i love the fact that this particular story has an update.. and the link is hilarious on such an immature level. YEEEEEA

  • will.H

    tampons used since 1994:

    Undocorkscrew-11
    me-2

  • Undocorkscrew

    @will.H…….pretty weak stuff.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    If the Braves won a bunch of pennants, and no one was there to see it happen, do they really count?

    That + what will.H said

    The Braves will finish ahead of the Mets. That much is certain.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Seriously, those are ‘trollish’ arguments. Funny how nobody’s put up a legit argument yet.

  • Undocorkscrew

    …and you guys are completely obsessed with the Mets, which is weird considering how unsuccessful they have been for so long….

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Last time I checked, the Mets have had more recent success than the Brave.

    Also, on a quick thumb through my Ways You Know Your Team Sucks handbook, there’s definitely an entry about comparing numbers from the last 16 years.

    There’s another section about a team with 11 playoff appearances in 16 years with only 1 World Series win.

    And yet another about conveniently starting the tally the year after your team lost the NLCS to the team you’re trying to argue against.

    From the same manual, under the listing If Your Team Has One of the Following Names is an entry for Braves

    There ya go. Sufficient proof.

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    “Since 1994:

    Pennants: Phillies 2, Braves 3
    WS wins: Phillies 1, Braves 1″

    What it took the Braves 15 years to do, the Phillies have done in three. Well, it’ll be four after they win the pennant again this year.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Also, tell me if this is accurate. I’m imagining you pounding on a keyboard in furious frustration, muttering “These people are such eeeeediots!!!”

    amirght?

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    maria = +1

  • http://www.thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    Undocorkscrew came in very respectfully, I really don’t see how that’s trolling. Trolling is done for the lulz, like when a Phillies blogger steals a certain Rays superfan’s gravatar and riles up all the regular commenters. UCS just wants to chat about base-ball. Just because he’s a “Friend-of Turner” doesn’t mean he’s trying to fuck with us. Carry on.

  • Undocorkscrew

    [quote]Last time I checked, the Mets have had more recent success than the Brave.[/quote]

    And this is relevant because……?

    [quote]There’s another section about a team with 11 playoff appearances in 16 years with only 1 World Series win.[/quote]

    Is there anything in there about an organization losing more games than any other MLB team in history?

    [quote]And yet another about conveniently starting the tally the year after your team lost the NLCS to the team you’re trying to argue against.[/quote]

    Tallies have to start somewhere. I could’ve started from the very start and listed the 10,000+ losses the organization you follow has suffered, which coincidentally is more than any other team.

    Come September, Hamels will once again be whining about how he can’t wait for the season to be over because the advice Mark Prior gave on ‘arm strengthening’ didn’t work out like he assumed it would.

    Come September Charlie Manuel will continue to put Brad Lidge out there in late-game situations, despite his 7+ ERA and 14 blown saves because he ‘cares about his players.’

    Come the end of September Phillies fans will argue that Ryan Howard once again deserves the MVP by using made-up stats, claiming that despite hitting under .200 against lefties, his AMPAS+/- was the best in the NL. He’ll also be the best fielding first baseman in the NL, despite his poor fielding percentage and complete inability to throw the ball anywhere but back to the mound.

    The thing is, I respect what that organization has done. They’ve managed to get type-A guys who’s brought them successs while still maintaining a solid farm. But with every organization who’s statistically sucked for so long, as soon as they have success the bandwagon starts making it’s rounds until that success is over. What’s going on Phillies Nation is identical to how Mets fans were reacting in 2006.

  • http://www.thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    Also, Undocorkscrew, you can just use regular old HTML tags. The UBB doesn’t work here.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Yeah, starting to notice that. Thanks.

  • maxL

    @Undocorkscrew

    I think the gist of the argument is that Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz doesn’t pitch for the Braves anymore, so the Braves in the 90s thing isn’t really applicable to the current state of the division. At least, that’s my take, with the addendum of that being that the first 120 years of the Phillies franchise doesn’t really have any more influence on the team NOW than all the success the Braves enjoyed in the 90s. Again, just my opinion.

  • Undocorkscrew

    @maxL…..

    Of course it doesn’t. I understand the argument, but this all started from someone saying that I’m a fan of bad teams(Braves). I was merely defending the team I follow. Of course past success or failure isn’t all that relevant. I was just playing the ‘troll game’ with some of the guys here, who seem to get a kick out of the fact that I’m a Braves fan.

    And I shouldn’t HAVE to say this, but I wasn’t exactly being serious about the Hamels, Howard, or Manuel comments.

  • Sal Fasano’s Beard

    Undocorkscrew sucks chipper jone’s balls and flosses his teeth with hudson’s pubes.

  • Undocorkscrew

    I hate to be included with the grammar police, but Mr. Fasano is in clear violation. That is, unless there’s a ‘Chipper Jone’ out there that I’m not aware of.

  • J

    Never in my life have I even visited Mets, Braves, Marlins, Yankees, Dodgers, whatever other team’s blog, let alone post on one. Honestly, I just don’t get the reason why someone would do that, other than to try to rile people up.

  • Undocorkscrew

    @J Says….

    Again, I was linked here from Yahoo Sports. I could care less if you’ve never posted on a different teams blog. I don’t make a habit out of it either.

  • Sal Fasano’s Beard

    Undocorkscrew gets off by posting on other teams blogs.

  • http://www.losmets.com your mother

    actually, the first thing he did was mention himself.

  • http://www.thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    Cheat…

  • http://www.thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    …to win.

  • will.H

    undocorkscew, im drinking wine. Did you have anything to do with this?

  • will.H

    Tug, eatin aint cheatin

  • Undocorkscrew

    @will.H – if by “did you have anything to do with it” you mean “Isn’t that what you do to chase down the taste of licking Bobby Cox’s bunghole,” then, why yes I did!

    Notice my grammatical correctness there, using the apostrophe to designate possessive of “bunghole” to “Cox”?

  • Sal Fasano’s Beard

    Undocorkscrew likes to eat 68 year old cock, after licking bobby’s bunghole.

  • will.H

    his bunghole tastes like Leo Mazzone tremors

  • Amazin Mess

    Halladay has had a better last two years, but Doc couldn’t touch Johan from 2004-2007. It’s a helluva debate actually. And Johnson, Hanson and Strasburg will probably have something to say about it soon too.

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    I’m sorry, did you try to argue that the Braves offense will outproduce the Phillies in 2010?

  • will.H

    i dont think anyone realizes what a run scoring juggernaut the phillies have been.

    they’ve lead the NL 4 of the last 5 seasons in runs. The one season they didnt lead the NL.. they came in 2nd. Phils also haven’t finsihed out of the top 5 since 2002.

  • Lynniemac

    “That is, unless there’s a ‘Chipper Jone’ out there that I’m not aware of.”

    That is, unless there’s a ‘Chipper Jone’ out there OF WHOM I’m not aware. Make sure you go back and retake Proper Preposition Positioning 101 at the Grammar Police Academy, rookie. ;-)

  • maxL

    OWNED

  • will.H

    lynnie definitely pulled out the paddle

  • http://www.majorleaguejerk.com Gonzo

    Interesting thread. It’s nice to have a Braves fan on here. He seems like a nice enough guy.

  • http://www.thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    That’s what I’m talkin’ ’bout.

    /Kip’d

  • BD

    has anyone seen anything on that cuban kid chapman that the reds got and wondering why he was not of interested to the phils

  • Watrick

    BD, I think he was asking for a whole lot of money. It was kind of a surprise that the Reds were the team to pick him up.

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    The Reds deferred money over a long time for him i believe.

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    6 years/$30.25M (2010-14), plus 2015 player option
    signed by Cincinnati as an amateur free agent 1/11/10
    $16.25M signing bonus ($1.5M at signing; $1.5M each Nov. 1, 2010-13; $1.25M each Nov. 1, 2014-20)
    10:$1M, 11:$1M, 12:$2M, 13:$2M, 14:$3M, 15:$5M player option
    Chapman must decide whether to accept or decline 2015 player option within 5 days after end of 2014 World Series
    if Chapman qualifies for arbitration after 2012, $5M is converted to a bonus and he becomes arbitration-eligible
    if Chapman qualifies for arbitration after 2013, $3M is converted to a bonus and he becomes arbitration-eligible
    defected from Cuba to Netherlands 7/1/09
    agent: Rodney Fernandez, Hendricks Sports
    ML service: 0.000

    I think it was more the $16.5M signing bonus. That was deferred over a long time.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Lynnie blows me away yet again.

    Way to go to the mountain, son.

  • Lynniemac

    A compliment in the form of a Charlie quote (or a Charlie quote in the form of a compliment) may be among the greatest I have ever received. Thanks, Heathcliff. <3

  • Undocorkscrew

    @Chris….

    Yes, that was my argument. The Braves made some permanent changes to their lineup at the break last season. They replaced Frenchy with Diaz, Kelly Johnson with Martin Prado. After those changes were made, it can be argued that the Braves offense outproduced the Phillies in 2010.

    Prado will be at 2nd for a full year, as opposed to have a year in 09.

    Diaz>Cabrera in left is MUCH better than Garret Anderson.

    Jason Heyward will obviously be an upgrade over Frenchy.

    Full year of McLouth(with corrected vision) as opposed to half a year in 09.

    If Glaus can stay healthy, he’s definitely an upgrade offensively over Casey Kotchman.

    So, the Phillies will obviously have more power, but I’d be willing to bet that the Braves won’t be far behind in runs scored if the roster can stay relatively healthy.

    Of course, you don’t have to take offense to this as it’s only an opinion. But I’m sure some of the children here will put on their ‘internet bully’ caps and throw some SABR at me, while also showing me how inferior they are by trying to insult me, for whatever reason.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Sorry, I meant ‘It can be argued that the Braves’s offense outproduced the Phillies in the 2nd half of 2010.’

    I’m sure a lot of you will just focus on that error though.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Well, make that 2 errors you have to focus on.

    ’2009, not 2010′

    Flame away, I suppose

  • http://www.fireericbruntlett.wordpress.com Max

    @Undocorkscrew ur arguement iz shit. this yr iz 2009, not last yr. ur a moran.

  • http://www.fireericbruntlett.wordpress.com Max

    @Undocorkscrew ur arguement iz shit. this yr iz 2010, not last yr. ur a moran.

  • http://www.fireericbruntlett.wordpress.com Max

    LOL @ myself
    Anyway…
    Seriously, though, if they hadn’t gotten ripped off in the Vasquez deal (or kept Vasquez in the first place) they’d have a rotation that could have very easily contended with the Phils, and arguably better. And while Melky may be a mediocre, at best, outfielder, he is still a major upgrade over what they had. The offense is much improved since the first-half of last year, but I still can’t understand what made the Braves give up a very good pitcher for next to nothing.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Melky wasn’t the centerpiece of the Vazquez deal, Aroldys Vizcaino was.

    It was known going into the offseason that the Braves had to get rid of Vazquez or Lowe. Obviously Lowe was the most logical choice, but given his contract……he was untradable. So Wren went with Vazquez. Vazquez was moved for salary purposes, outfield depth, and potentially one of the best starting pitching prospects in baseball. Then again, he’s currently an unproven prospect, so I can’t decide who got the better end of the deal just yet.

    As a Braves fan, I wish they could’ve moved Vazquez for some more major-league-ready offense, but seeing as how Vazquez wasn’t likely to put up anywhere close to those same numbers again, I’m ok with the deal. It gave the team some extra cash to make a mid-season trade, if needed. Melky is all but useless as an every-day player, but I’m confident Diaz(the superior player of the two) will get the bulk of the playing time in left. Heyward, unless he has a horrible spring, pretty much has right field locked up. McLouth in center. It’s a definite upgrade over what they had out there last year. Cabrera will be used as a 4th outfielder and for late-inning defensive help.

    And I’m still confident that the current rotation in Atlanta is still superior to the Phillies, although it’s impossible to tell right now due to both staff’s having question marks. But the Braves definitely have the advantage in terms of depth. But like I said, it’s impossible to tell right now.

    One thing that should also be noted is the vastly improved bench for the Braves. Last year, Greg Norton was the primary pinch-hitter and statistically had one of the worst seasons in recent memory for a pinch-hitter.

    As it stands now, the bench will be:

    Diaz/Melky, Eric Hinske, Mitch Jones(led all minor-leaguers in HR in AAA last year), Omar Infante, and David Ross(actually finished 2nd in OPS on the Braves last year). That is a bench with some pop, which was definitely lacking last season.

  • will.H

    undocorkscrew,

    i’d like to put your sweet stat in context. atlanta outscored the phillies in the 2nd half by 2 runs. The Phillies outscored Atlanta through out the whole season by 85 runs.

    2=very minimal

    85=holy shit batman

  • Brettymz

    Fuck Billy Wagner.

    If it was possible, I’d volunteer to throw him in a shark tank. He doesn’t deserve to bleed red

  • Undocorkscrew

    Well, obviously most of those runs came before the Braves made the changes to it’s lineup. My point is, that same lineup will be out there for a FULL year, with a couple of additions that also improve it even more.

    Not saying they WILL outproduce the Phillies, but I wouldn’t be totally shocked if they did.

    The Phillies lineup remains pretty much unchanged, aside from the addition of Polanco(who IS an upgrade over Feliz). So, both lineups have improved over the offseason……at least on paper.

    It should be noted that the Braves, over the course of the entire 2009 season, had a higher team AVG and OBP.

    But it’s the 2nd half, after the changes, that my point is resting on:

    Phillies:

    AVG: .255
    OBP: .326
    SLG: .440
    OPS: .767
    HR: 102
    RBI: 345
    Runs: 360
    Hits: 665
    BAbip: .286

    Braves:

    AVG: .266
    OBP: .347
    SLG: .416
    OPS: .763
    HR: 81
    RBI: 344
    Runs: 362
    Hits: 674
    BAbip: .306

    VERY comparable numbers, and with MUCH less power. A healthy Glaus will help with the lack of power compared to last season. Jason Heyward, who I have nothing but faith in, will also help. Chipper has more protection in the lineup. McLouth will finally be healthy and around for a full season.

    Another thing that should be noted about all of this is that Chipper flat out sucked over the course of his last 85 or so games, where he hit around .210. McLouth also sucked in his last 60 games, hitting around .225. So, even with those key players killing rallies left and right, the Braves still managed to put up those numbers during the 2nd half.

  • Lynniemac

    “I’m sure a lot of you will just focus on that error though.”

    Undo, I hope that’s not referring to my comment. I merely thought it was funny that you, yourself, made a grammatical error in a comment wherein you were attempting to correct someone else’s grammatical error. It was meant not to be a flame, but to be humorous (hence the use of the emoticon, the overuse of which I am not a fan). I have, at various times and in various places, been accused of not only being a member of the Grammar Police, but their Commissioner. Welcome to the Fightins, should you choose to stay. :-)

  • Undocorkscrew

    It wasn’t directed at you, but to the guys or gals who were going on about Bobby Cox’s balls and whatnot.

    And yeah, that was pretty silly of me. But so was the comment I was replying to.

  • will.H

    undocorkscrew, every team loses key parts of their lineup at some point in the season, including the Phillies. So that levels the playing field when you say the braves managed to do something despite all the injuries.

    Teams like the Phillies often lack in batting average and make up for it with extrabase hits/HR’s. 3 of the top 4 teams with the highest BA in the NL missed the playoffs.

    I bet the Braves will be better overall in 2010, and so will the Phillies. Scary thought for the rest of the NL.

  • Undocorkscrew

    And for the record, I enjoy talking baseball with fans of a rival team. Obviously it’s a bit tough on the net having to sort through the trollish comments, but the actual, relevant comments make it worthwhile. Spring Training is about to be underway and I’m finally at a point where I can feel good about my teams chances, which hasn’t happened in years.

    So, I’m always up for a good debate with fans of a rival team.

  • Undocorkscrew

    @will…

    I wasn’t claiming the Braves did that despite injuries. I said they did that despite Chipper and McLouth killing rallies. Neither were out for any significant period of time, they just sucked in the 2nd half.

    And yes, both teams have improved…..which makes 2010 even more exciting.

    For the record, I’m definitely not picking the Braves to win the east. It’s the Phillies to lose. I do like their chances(at this point, at least) for the WC though.

  • Cowbell Kid

    All of you soft-ass NL East fans need to settle right the fuck down. It doesn’t matter who wins what division in the weaker league, because the fuckin RAYS are bringing it this year. ALL THE WAY, MOTHERFUCKERS. I’ve BEEN to Turner Field and those fans are bigger pussies than all the Phaggots in Philly. WEAK, WEAK, WEAK.

    GO RAYS

  • Eric

    Cowbell – I implore you to take a trip to a game in Philly, you may be surprised how few pussies you encounter. Might I remind you: http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/article873330.ece

  • Undocorkscrew

    How on earth can an example such as that be used in FAVOR of the Phillies?

  • will.H

    “It’s the Phillies to lose. I do like their chances(at this point, at least) for the WC though.”

    without joking, im not exactly sure what you mean..

  • maxL

    @will.H

    He thinks the Phillies will win the division, and he likes the Braves chances at the Wild Card.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Bold prediction: Braves will not make the playoffs in any capacity

  • Undocorkscrew

    Even bolder prediction: Phillies win 81 games, but because such a high number of sports writers call them ‘the class of the NL’ they get in the playoffs by write-in. They also get to pick who they want to play and the start time for each game. They’re allowed 10 players on the field, with 2 being a DH. They get ONE pick of a player from the opposing team to play for them in any game. However, there is a downside to this….

    Ryan Howard is limited to 10 ‘hand smells’ per game.

    Jimmy Rollins will not be allowed to speak.

    Jayson Werth has to dress as a different wrestler every game, and he only gets 2 strikes per AB because he has a ‘y’ in his first name.

    If Cole Hamels starts whining, he’s forced to ‘wife swap’ with Brett Myers.

    Ross Gload is only available to hit against lefties.

    Carlos Ruiz is allowed to lead the game in ‘scraps’ on any day, but has to finish 2nd to Chase Utley in ‘grinds.’

  • maxL

    I’d object, but that’s pretty fucking hilarious.

  • Lynniemac

    Actually, I thought that first paragraph was FOX’s proposal for ensuring the Red Sox and Yankees make the postseason.

  • ScottRuffcorn

    @undocorkscrew,

    I understand your arguement of the Braves’ supposed 2nd half run scoring superiority in 2009, but in the spirit of these types of debates which never end I’ll add to this. You mention that the Braves were superior due to their lineup changes in the second half, and that they’ll be the second coming of Christ this year as well. I can say that also the Phillies offense may have been off in the second half due to Ibanez’s injury(s). Basically what I’m saying is that your arguement is full of excuses for the Braves’ 1st half futility, which makes it just as legitimate of me whining about injuries the Phils’ had to contend with, which I try to avoid because that’s what whiny Mets fans do.

    And also I’d like to point out that as Phillies fans we attack the Mets players/fans more due to geography. Atlanta might as well be in Mexico, New York is just over an hour by train (if you can afford Amtrak). Also we have an awesome inferiority complex with the New York Metro area and fuck you if you try to point that out.

    Also in the spirit of the troll/flame war thing……..Go sharpen sticks with the viet cong with Jane Fonda, a grown man shouldn’t be called Chipper, TBS can suck a fart out of my ass, and ummm Troy Glaus has been one injury after another since he left the Los Angeles Angels of Tijuana er Anaheim and shit…………

  • http://thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    /THREAD

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Boldest prediction: undocorkscrew will cease to be a shitdick at some point during the 2010 season

    /nevergonnahappen

  • PhillyCuban

    Ah, I love how optimistic baseball fans are in the end of winter. We all have short/selective memories, only looking at the most recent happenings and only using specific stats (which of course is the be all end all) to back up our argument. Its nice sitting on all of the Phillies success (I went to Citi Field last May and all I had to say was WFC to shut the Mets fans up), but it actually doesn’t mean dick for this season. Predictions are horseshit too. The division is WIDE open. Every team has improved in the (also long) offseason, but the real season is lonnggggggggg. In 2 1/2 months, the Marlins might be sitting at 11-1 while the Phils get off to their usual slow start. Thats what happened last year, it didnt matter then, and it doesnt matter for this season.

    We all know, for the most part, what the lineups, the rotations, and the bullpens look like for opening day. But each of those is guaranteed to change throughout the season. A big part of it comes down to who avoids injuries, who avoids long slumps, and who has the organizational depth to deal with the inevitable downs that come with the ups. That’s why they play the game and why we watch it.

    Go ahead and resume the back-and-forth, Ill jump in too

  • http://thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    Here’s a good question: Who are the Phillies going to get in June/July for Jayson Werth?

  • Undocorkscrew

    @Scott….

    Never once said the Braves 2nd half was superior in 2009, nor did I claim that they’ll be better next year. I said that an argument could be made that they did outproduce the Phillies in the 2nd half.

    And I don’t know what ‘troll/flame’ thing you’re talking about. I’m not a troll, but I can’t seem to convince anybody….

    And Heathcliff thought I was being serious with those predictions I made earlier, clearly showing that he’s incapable of having a legitimate conversation about baseball or comprehend satire.

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    @Tug, that’s a pretty depressing thought.

    How about Cliff Lee? Cross your fingers that the Mariners are out of the race by June! Also, I think I’m half-joking.

  • Watrick

    I think it’s going to be Shane leaving, actually. Call it a hunch, since I don’t know why I think it. Maybe because the contract that he signed is favorable for a trade, and we have a few players that we could hide in right or left until they are ready for center. I mean, it’s hard to figure that giving up a gold glover is a good idea, but Rube has shown that he’ll pull the string on a trade if it will help the team down the road, and not just for the present day.

  • Undocorkscrew

    I can’t see them trading Victorino, unless Werth is willing to sign an extension around that time…..which isn’t happening.

  • http://www.thefightins.com/ Tug Haines
  • ScottRuffcorn

    @undocorkscrew

    I’m just having fun with the whole thing. I didn’t think you were trolling either, but considering you’re a non-Phillies fan, and a Braves fan at that, we had to give you a hard time. Question though, if you believe the braves “did outproduce the Phillies in the 2nd half”, doesn’t that mean you believe they were superior, at least in one aspect, in your arguement run production? I always thought being better at something indicated superiority.

    Oh and Johan Santana on top of being a cock and a deuche is also a choad muffin.

  • ScottRuffcorn

    @Tug

    My prediction right now is that Werth does not get traded because 1.) the Phillies will need his right handed bat because 2.) they don’t have any right handed power that’s ready now or will be ready in the farm system and 3.) what they get might not be better than the picks they’ll likely be compensated with when he signs elsewhere. I think he’s going to have another career year and he’ll pull down Jason Bay money or better, because he’s better than Jason Bay and possesses more tools. It’ll be interesting to watch it unfold either way.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Yeah, I guess. But I said that I never said they were superior. But yeah, I think the Braves were slightly better offensively in the 2nd half. An argument could be made either way though.

    I only pointed out it out to show the people who aren’t giving them a chance that they do have the staff and offense to make a run at the postseason.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Chase Utley essentially counts as “right handed power” since he hits with same amount of power against LHP as he does RHP (or in the case of last year, MORE power against LHPs).

  • Undocorkscrew

    Since I’m already on a Phillies blog, I have a few questions about the organization.

    I’m assuming that Lidge will be the closer from day one, but has Manuel addressed whether or not he’ll leave him in that role if he continues to struggle early on? He struggled pretty much all of last year and kept his spot pretty much all season, including the postseason. Any mention of this?

    Also, any chance Dominic Brown is brought up at any point this year? I still don’t get why he was coveted by the Phillies more than Taylor….

    And I’d like to hear some opinions of Phillies fans regarding Jason Heyward. He’s only had 100 or so AB’s above the AA level, do you think it’s too early to bring him up to start the season, even if he has a great spring?

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Lidge will probably close out of the gate, and Manuel will probably be a stubborn bastard about pulling him from that role even if he sucks completely. He was asked about it in the off season and said “He’s the closer. We signed him to be the closer,” and there are 2 years left on that contract. Shoot me now.

    Brown may be brought up, if at all, when the rosters expand in September. He still has more development to do and there is really no reason to rush him at this point given the Phillies’ OF situation. He’s a better prospect than Brown because, while he’s not quite as polished as Taylor is now, he has a higher ceiling, projects for more power and discipline.

    Heyward is a legit 5 tool prospect, probably one of the best prospects in baseball. The only concern about him should be his durability, as he’s had a lot of injury problems. For that reason, it’s probably safer to leave him in the minors for another year. Like Brown, with a prospect that projects as well as Heyward, there’s no reason to rush him, especially with Heyward’s injury issues.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    middle paragraph should read “He’s a better prospect than TAYLOR because . . . “

  • Undocorkscrew

    Heyward really doesn’t have any injury issues. He had a strained calf late last season in AAA and was shut down, but he was shut down for precautionary reasons. No point in leaving the best prospect in the game out there for meaningless AAA games. Seriously, if he had injury concerns he wouldn’t be topping almost every Top Prospect list. But I understand why people believe he’s a slight injury risk.

    I’m for calling him up around the end of May or early June(similar to what they did with Tommy Hanson), but not before. The Braves need his offense, and bringing him up to start the season starts his arbitration clock earlier than I would like, as well.

    And thanks for the input

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Well he’s also had oblique and hip injuries and a jammed heel, per Baseball America. It doesn’t dent his prospect status, it’s just a concern. He’s still at the top of prospect lists despite all that because he’s that fucking good. And yeah, everyone thinks he’ll be up at some point in the season, I just don’t see the point unless they can give him PAs every day. Which I guess they can.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Yeah, there’s an opening in right field and Wren and Cox have both said that it’s his to lose. I have no doubt he’ll be the opening day right fielder.

    And it was a strained oblique, not calf. The jammed heel was more of a fluke thing, so I’m not concerned at all about that. Honestly didn’t know about the hip. Any detailed info on that? That could be something to worry over….

    God, I hope he doesn’t turn into Cliff Floyd……

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    I don’t see anything via google, just saw it in the Baseball America write up. Probably nothing to worry about, in that case.

  • PhillyCuban

    Agree with Phylan

    Lidge is the closer. But out of the gate he may not be completely ready because apparently he’s 2 weeks behind schedule and you know he has to be 100% both physically and mentally. But signing Baez was partly as an insurance policy because of his closing experience

    Brown definitely needs to improve more. He does potentially have more projection than Taylor, but I dont think he’ll develop elite power. Maybe he’ll flirt with a couple 30 HR seasons, but mostly in the low 20s. Taylor is basically a finished product.

    I think Heyward should be a perennial all-star. If the Braves’ front office thinks that he can handle major league pitching and that he’s their best option right now in RF then he should start the season there, because it’s not gonna be an easy battle for the division. We’ll see what happens in ST.

    As for Werth being traded, you’ve gotta be kidding me. When has a contending team ever shipped off one of their key everyday players in the middle of a season? If anything, the Phillies would be buyers not sellers in July (like we have been when we got Blanton and Lee, and Eyre and Stairs too). If we cant resign him, we’ll get 2 picks back. 2 1st round picks and run at the World Series with Werth is worth more than anything we’d get mid-season. Imagine what the clubhouse would be like after that if we dumped him?

  • Undocorkscrew

    I don’t know if that comment about Werth was directed at me, but the only thing I said about the guy was that I don’t see the Phillies trading Victorino unless Werth is willing to sign an extension mid-season…..Never said he would/should be traded?

    And is he a type-A already? Correct me if I’m wrong, but right now I see him as a type-B, in which case the Phillies wouldn’t get any 1st-round picks for him.

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    @Undo – calm down there fella, and scroll back up to comment 148

    Or, for added convenience: http://www.thefightins.com/chris/johan-santana-is-a-cock/comment-page-2/#comment-37053

    Contrary to popular belief, not every comment is directed at you.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Well, he was replying to me with his first 3 paragraphs, so naturally I assumed that with his 4th, he was getting me confused with someone else.

    And what’s this ‘calm down’ thing? Calm down about what, exactly?

    And it’s ‘popular belief’ amongst this blog that every comment is directed at me? I can’t be making THAT big of an impression here….

  • will.H

    undo, this thread was so 5 days ago. c’mon down to the newer, more hilarious ones.

  • Undocorkscrew

    I’ll do that as soon as there are some topics not about Jayson Werth’s beard. There’s just not much a Braves fan can ad to that, unfortunately.

    I admit though, one of the funnier baseball blogs I’ve encountered.

  • will.H

    jayson werth has a beard?

  • Joe D

    Fact: There have been more Werth photoshops than there are Braves season ticket holders.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Can’t argue with that, Joey D. Although it does say something about how Philly fans spend their time.

    Fact: Ryan Howard has smelled his hand over 10,000 times, which coincidentally is around the same total of losses the Phillies have endured.

    Rumor: Charlie Manuel lost his team home field advantage in the World Series by using Ryan Howard in a pinch-hit role late in the All-Star game when there were plenty of people on the bench who could’ve actually made contact with the tying run on 3rd…

    Fact: Unfortunately, he’ll be the NL’s manager once again. Maybe he can finally get Carlos Ruiz an All-Star appearance.

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    The 10,000 losses thing is such a joke. Why don’t you bring up Philly fans throwing snowballs at Santa next. That will knock your credibility down another peg.

  • Undocorkscrew

    Not trying to be credible at all, really. I’m countering idiotic statements(like Joe D’s) with my own idiotic statements. Credibility has nothing to do with it.

    Why not call me out on my credibility regarding my comment about Howard smelling his hand 10,000 times? You’re taking all this pretty seriously.

  • Undocorkscrew

    …and 10,000+ losses is no joke, my friend.

  • The A Team

    I was asked to jump in here and 173 posts is a lot to catch up on. I’m going to comment on one from the resident Braves fan that jumped out at me.

    You doubt the accuracy of ‘sabermetric’ stats ability to predict Jair Jurrjens based on two seasons of data. Specifically, you determined that skill has a bigger role in him outperforming his peripherals than luck. To simplify things, let’s say Jair has a 50% chance of getting (un)/lucky. The chance of him being lucky 2 seasons in a row is 25%(.5*.5). In practice, those odds are obviously much lower, that was just a thought exercise.

    Predicting Jurrjen’s true talent level with any degree of accuracy is difficult because his batted ball profiles varied wildly from ’08 to ’09(I’ll explain that if you’d like). Rather than working with a projection, let’s just consider his 2009 luck numbers. He features a .273 BABIP, 79.4% LOB%, and a 6.1% HR/FB. These are the typical “luck” stats consulted because pitchers have very little control over them. Now let’s be optimistic and regress those numbers to numbers 25% above league average. This results in numbers around a .292 BABIP, 73% LOB%, and 8.5% HR/FB. This leaves you with a fielding independent estimate of a hair under 4.00 for the 2009 campaign even assuming he’s in the top 25% percentile of pitchers.

    So yea, as far as the data shows Jurrjens is good but not spectacular. This jives with my own scouting report on him built from about 15 starts I’ve watched. There’s no way you can watch him and see a sub 3 ERA pitcher (independent of defense). You have to squint pretty hard to see a sub 3.5 ERA pitcher.

  • Lynniemac

    Funny, I always thought the Big Piece was spitting into his hand, not smelling it. And the Braves are only a mere 117 losses away from their own 10,000 milestone.

  • http://www.majorleaguejerk.com Gonzo

    Did ya ever smell your finger after scratching the crack of your ass?

  • Watrick

    But Lynnie, the Braves moved from market to market. The Phillies were able to do it without having to move anywhere, since the horrible boo birds actually supported them (And the A’s moving out didn’t exactly hurt, either.)

  • http://www.majorleaguejerk.com Gonzo

    How did a post about Johan Santana turn into a Braves/Phils pissing match?

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    The Braves fan is upset we aren’t more concerned with his team.

  • Watrick

    How else, the damn Braves fan! (While it really was a few readers here that posted against him and made his back arch and all….)

  • The A Team

    Since when are Braves fans cats?

  • http://www.thefightins.com/ Tug Haines

    Oh look, it’s this thread again.

  • Undocorkscrew

    @The A Team…

    Never said I doubted SABR’s ability to predict Jurrjens stats, I said I don’t trust most of them in general. Could be due to ignorance, as I’ve never really followed nor put much stock into them. Watching a player perform and utilizing the stats MLB recognizes now has always worked fine for me.

    And I don’t believe Jurrjens is a sub-3.00 pitcher at all. I’m aware luck had something to do with his success last year, as he always seemed to get out of trouble. But based on his two major league seasons and his time in the minors, his stats have all remained around the same……despite not having overpowering stuff and a weak-to-average BB/K. 60 starts is a pretty decent sample size, for me at least. I’m not expecting another Glavine(a guy who’s never had overpowering stuff or a great BB/K, yet has 2 Cy Youngs and 300+ wins), but I don’t see him turning into anything less than a solid #3 guy right now. He gets hitters to put the ball where he wants(I’m sure there’s a stat for this), and that’s what I attribute most of his success to.

    I keep hearing how defense played a major role in his success, yet the Braves had awful defense last year, so I’m still not sure where that’s coming from.

    Again, not saying he’s a great pitcher. I just don’t think he’s going to have as big of a drop-off as people are expecting.

    @Lynniemac….

    Plenty of players spit into their hands. However, only one smells it.

    @Chris…

    You may be onto something. Not in the sense that I’m personally upset with the lack of recognition, but the fact that the Mets are likely to be a non-factor in 2010, while the Braves aren’t. So yeah, it would make sense for the Phillies and it’s fans to be a bit more concerned with a team that actually has the better chance of giving them trouble.

  • Undocorkscrew

    @Tug…

    Sorry, but considering that there aren’t any other recent topics that don’t have to do with Jayson Werth’s beard, I’m forced to keep posting here. Not a shot at the blog, mind you. I actually find it pretty humorous.

  • Watrick

    Now he’s shitting on Jayson’s Beard?! How many posts will he post that I can misread and keep this damn thing going?!

  • Undocorkscrew

    I think an ‘Atlanta Braves 2010 Preview’ on the front page is in order….I’d love to read that, actually.

  • Watrick

    Actually, a break down of the other teams in the division is a cool idea.

  • http://www.thefightins.com Chris

    Well, maybe I’ll have to do that.

    Also Undocorkscrew, you need to realize that we all still hold a hatred for the Braves and their title run for all those years. But the Mets most recently, 2009 aside, have been more relevant to us. But even with their horrid 2009 the Mets still continue to run their mouths.

    The Braves did what they did all those years much like the way the Phillies have done it the past 3 years, with a strong core and nice complementary players, which you can respect.

    The Mets on the other hand built a team through free agency and continue to overpay aging veterans and ignore depth. Quite frankly, the Mets are more fun to pick on. The Braves used to be, but then they traded Frenchy so I’ve got nothin’

  • will.H

    It’s fun to make fun of Jane Fonda for being a communist.

  • ShawnJames

    Off with Jane Fonda’s head

  • http://www.thefightins.com meech.one

    194th!

  • Watrick

    I’m holding out to be number 309, just like the Johnny Cash song.

  • 194

    195th

  • one ninety sixth

    197th

  • Not Tug Haines

    198th

  • Chipper Jones

    199th

  • Mark Lemke

    200th!

  • MaxL

    NOW can we kill this thread?

  • will.H

    no way, im still wondering what drew Undocorkscrew specifically to this thread. Was he googling Santana, Cock?

  • Watrick

    It was link from Yahoo sports. He posted that above.

  • Undocorkscrew

    No, it was Jose Reyes ‘googling’ Santana’s cock……not I.

    You know, you guys give David Wright a pretty hard time……which is alright, I suppose. But I find Jose Reyes to be, by far the most annoying member of that team. Did you guys know that he’s once again in the ‘best shape of his life’ in ST?

    And Jason Heyward destroyed a Coke truck and assit Braves GM Manno’s car hitting moon shots during his first batting practice yesterday. Bobby Cox said he hasn’t heard a sound of a bat like that since Hank Aaron and Mickey Mantle. Overhyped? Absolutely….

  • http://www.shoesred.com/tag/highheel Red shoes

    Wow am I literally the only reply to this incredible article?

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