The Fightins'
Mar
26
2010
Jamie Moyer: The 5th Starter
Posted by at 11:56 pm ET 85 Comments

As I wrote a few weeks ago, the competition for the fifth spot in the Phillies’ rotation was really less about who earned and more about the cost/benefit ratio and feasibility of having a 47-year-old man take the hill every fifth day and go up against players half his age.

And as of 7:00 EST on Friday, the rotation was still in a state of flux. Kyle Kendrick, from a performance standpoint, was the leading candidate for the spot. However, Jamie Moyer kept pace, leading many to believe that, barring a collapse of some sort, he was the likely winner of the competition – probably before it even started.

But his fate was all but sealed tonight, when he pitched a masterful six and two-thirds against the New York Yankees, as he allowed two base runners on a hit and a HBP, while striking out six on 79 pitches.

Say what you want about spring training, but it was an impressive performance for the veteran against a Yankees lineup that won’t look too much different on Opening Day. And with that, at least we can rest easier knowing that Moyer at least appeared to have earned his spot, rather than have it handed to him because of his tenure.

And despite a steadfast refusal to comment on the situation from Charlie Manual or Rich Dubee, and in the latter’s case, a straight-up silent treatment, the writing is on the wall: Jamie Moyer starts the season in the rotation. Where does he finish it? Well, that’s up to Jamie.

Now, the question remains: What happens to Kendrick? Whatever the case, it is certainly not the fate befitting of someone who has worked as hard and performed as well as Kyle Kendrick. However, it is the way of the world.

Unfortunately for Kendrick, he has minor league options, which allows the Phillies some room to maneuver with the pitching staff. He can be sent down to the minors to start, or to the bullpen as a long man/middle reliever. With J.C. Romero and Brad Lidge likely to miss the first week of the season, it’s a simple and short term solution. However, there are only seven spots in the bullpen, and assuming Lidge and Romero both come back sooner rather than later, it leaves one open spot after accounting for Ryan Madson, Jose Contreras, Danys Baez and Chad Durbin.

Likely candidates to fill that spot are (R) Kendrick, (L) Antonio Bastardo, and (R) David Herndon. All three are viable options: Kendrick has the experience, but not as a reliever. Bastardo spent most of his time in 2009 as a starter, and despite his spring struggles, would be the only left in the ‘pen until Romero returns. Herndon, whom the Phillies selected in the Rule 5 draft from the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, has allowed nary a run in nine innings of work in the spring. His heavy sinker endears him to Citizen’s Bank Park and is well suited for coming into the game with runners on and in need of a ground ball. However, he has to remain on the big league roster for the entire season, or the Phils have to offer him back to LA, and thus, risk losing him.

Three pitchers, one spot.

Here’s how I think it shakes out:

Kendrick, due to his minor league options, gets sent to AAA to be a starter. This will allow him to be called up to be a spot starter without having to build up his innings, as he would have to do if he was a relief pitcher.

Bastardo, despite his relative inexperience in the bullpen, will start the season as the sole lefty out of the ‘pen until Romero comes back from the DL.

Herndon, who has been very impressive this spring, will make the big league roster as a reliever. Despite not having logged a single inning in The Show, he has more than warranted a spot out of the ‘pen.

Assuming that Lidge and Romero return and are both healthy and effective, then these problems will sort themselves out rather easily. Bastardo gets sent down to join Kendrick, and assuming Herndon pitches well, he stays on the roster for the duration of the season.

Keep in mind, that this can all change at the drop of a hat. Moyer is 47-years-old, and unlike the rest of the rotation, he will be competing for a rotation spot each time he takes the hill. Coupled with his off season surgeries, he is the most fragile of the bunch.

It’s not an easy call for the 2010 Fightins. They have too many pitchers and not enough spots. Fortunately for them, most everyone has proven their worth in the spring. Ultimately, it comes down to who can prove their mettle when the rubber hits the road. If everything continues, as is? Well, that’s a very good problem to have.

  • Carlos Beltran

    UNO@!

  • Freddie the K

    Nice optimistic article. I’m ready for the season to start, and it is looking like the Fightins are too.

  • http://twitter.com/kraeer kraeer

    There’s no doubt in my mind Moyer wins the 5th spot regardless of his performance tonight. It’s just set in stone. You’re right, that it’s up to Jamie how long he stays there. MARK MY WORDS: Kendrick’s day will come sometime midseason. Moyer will either get hurt or won’t be able to compete towards the end.

  • Tits McGhee

    I’d like to see Scott Eyre get out of the RV and get back on the mound. The Phillies need a reliable lefty in the pen.

  • Cliff Lee

    Can I please come back? Seattle blows. I really liked my short time in Philly. Maybe if I jerk around enough, Seattle will trade me for nothing!

  • Dave Brown

    Jamie Moyer does his best, especially with the government taking away his medicare like that. I second Tits’ call for a return of Scott Eyre to active duty. We need more funnymen in the majors. I also would just like to congratulate the Fightins site for no longer stalling my firefox browser whenever I come here for laughs/porn. No more mac pinwheel! Hooray for me!

  • TonyIsDynamic

    Seriously, can we just trade McNabb for Lee and get it over with?

  • will.H

    i wouldn’t get too high on the highs or too low on the lows. we all know as soon as jamie lets up 5 ER in 3.2 IP people will jump all over him. I say let him spot start. 1-5 and sometimes 6. Yeah you miss a roster spot for your BP but it’s release jamie and pay him.. or make him your fulltime 5th starter until he poops. Kendrick in the BP is cool but he’ll be the 5th starter before august comes around.

  • http://twitter.com/Gaze_NJ Gaze_NJ

    Based on the interviews I’ve heard from Kyle Kendrick this season, I feel as though a trip to the minors might be a total confidence killer.

  • Jayson’s beard

    tyler walker should be able to pitch 2 teams at the same time, no?

  • Heathcliff Slocumb

    Vote for Zoo with Roy! http://thephield.wordpress.com/

    I love Zolecki, but let’s get these hysterical newbies some love.

  • Adam Eaton

    Not much longer till Howard Eskin shows up.

  • The Killers Zs

    I’m sorry but I admire the guy for doing what he is doing. And I admire the organization for giving him the respect he deserves.

  • http://www.genericshow.com Jay

    Can we please stop bringing up Cliff Lee. He’s not coming back.

  • Valerio De los santos

    Is there any room in the rotation for me?

  • Watrick

    Yeah, I like that he’s still pitching and all, and I like that he’s fairly humble about what he’s been able to accomplish and all, but I do see him as a weak link that could be replaced with Kendrick. If he can get the job done for this year, great. I don’t see why we can’t possibly dangle KK out for trade bait if isn’t going to be on the big league roster. Maybe get something to bolster the bullpen for him. I don’t like the idea of him sitting in the minors another year, just for his confidence and his relationship with the club going forward if that happens.

  • World Forker Champion ’11

    I hate to say it, but i’m not incredibly confident with either Moyer OR Kendrick as the 5th starter. Moyer has more of a track record, but he’s really getting on in years and any number of things could go against him. Then we have Kendrick who has been busting his ass a ton lately, and has had a great spring. Unfortunately, it’s still Kyle Kendrick…a guy who has given us many highs and lows over the years, and it’s hard to know exactly what we will get out of him. When I first saw Kendrick come to spring training all fired up, it got me really exciting that maybe we’d be seeing a mini-Roy, but it’s still spring training and it’s hard to predict how well he’ll do in regular games.

  • Blaise

    I wish the Phillies would just trade Kyle Kendrick if they’re gonna keep doing this to him. He’s been great in spring training, and he’s competing against a 47 year old guy. If you really don’t like him that much, trade him for a solid bullpen arm or something

  • Deej

    WFC, fortunately, you said it yourself. Its a 5th starter. Id say out of all 30 MLB teams, not many will have a better situation when it comes to a 5th guy in the rotation.

  • bigmyc

    Can we please stop talking about Tyler Walker. He shows up everyday and bothers me at work.

  • Bobby D

    Who’s talking about Tyler Walker? It’s supposed to be JA Happ.

  • JD Durbin

    What happened to me? Please tell me.

  • http://phillieslongdrive.wordpress.com/ Chris

    JD Durbin is banging hookers and snorting coke with the little money he made playing baseball.

  • Tomas Perez

    I can pitch

  • http://phillieslongdrive.com/ Chris

    That’s what I would do if I were him.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Why all the teary eyes for Kendrick? You do have to earn your way onto the rotation, and he’s had one good year, one horrendous year, and a solid spring training. For most pitchers, that’s not exactly a blockbusting resume. Despite limiting runs, he’s not been getting many strikeouts, and has about as many flyouts as he does groundouts. There’s no guarantee he’ll be effective every fifth day against top-to-bottom major league lineups. Moyer probably won’t either, but there’s no harm in giving him one or two starts to see. And no, no ML team is going to give up talent for Kendrick, and even if one would, why would we trade one of maybe 7 starters on our roster who have a chance at being effective in the majors right now? The Phillies aren’t exactly brimming with pitching depth.

    The hard work is nice and the whole Halladay Jr. thing is cute but you do have to prove your worth in this sport, and Kendrick will get that chance. He may just have to wait a few weeks for it. And if a simple trip to the minors, for a guy who has been there before, can have such an effect on him that his performance suffers, do you really want him on the mound anyway?

  • Watrick

    I’m not so much worried about his confidence in himself, but more about his attitude towards the club. I see him being a viable option for the 5th spot eventually, maybe even moving up in the rotation (at most to 4th if this starting rotation stays the way it is.) I would love to keep him around to take Moyer’s spot if he falters. Let’s not be too sure that Happ will flourish again this year, either. I think a lot of what this team will do this year depends on the back end of the rotation and the back end of the bullpen. Well, that and staying out of slumps and being healthy and all that other stuff that has to go right for a team.

  • Pat

    ryan howard in a sweet new subway commercial

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Oh trust me, I’m not placing too many hopes in Happ’s 2010 either. I just think the spring buzz around Kendrick has gotten a bit out of control and we haven’t seen him pitch a regular season game yet.

  • Ricky Otero

    Moyer should only be allowed to pitch against the Marlins and Nationals, Kendrick can take the rest of the league but seriously what’s going to happen is that Moyer will have a string of starts where he only makes it to the 4th or 5th inning and then Kendrick will get his shot.

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    Fuck Butler.

  • ease

    This is crap is moyer is the 5th. Kendrick has done everything asked of him.

  • World Forker Champion ’11

    Maybe so, but Moyer was pretty much promised the starter job unless he entirely sucked in spring training.

  • Eric

    Phylan, I love when you are the voice of reason. Why in the world does anybody give a fuck about Kyle Kendrick? Based on the Philadelphia logic on this thread, Cole’s ERA of 5.50 this spring means he should be in the bullpen and Kendrick should be our #2. Get real people. Kendrick has done NOTHING to warrant a spot in the rotation. Finally putting together a solid 3 weeks just means he has to patiently wait his turn and prove in the minors that he is not bipolar on the mound.

    I think the best post on here ever is blaise proposing we trade Kyle Kendrick. If you wanna know the worth of a minor league pitcher who throws 88 mph, go try to contact a general manager with this idea. I know we like to root for our guys, but valuing Kendrick (right now mind you) as anything more than a live arm to throw batting practice is way out of line.

  • Kruk vs. Johnson

    Yes, why all the licking for KK? Moyer is a fine 5th starter. Besides, I’m sure well all get the chance to see if Kendrick can consistently pitch well when Moyer goes to the DL (O/U May 22nd; I’ll take the under).

  • Hunter S. Thompson

    Blaise is a name for an investment manager’s son. Fuck you, Blaise. Tower Hill is a really shitty school, and fuck Wilmington.

  • The Lone Filafel

    We should trade Kendrick for Cliff Lee and put Lee in the bullpen. Maybe we can send a Schmitter as well to Seattle to sweeten the deal.

  • John

    we should trade Ryan Howard for Albert Pujols, that sounds like a tasty trade

  • TonyIsDynamic

    Let’s trade Howard Eskin. I’m sick of him and his cock-eating ways.

  • Randy Johnson

    Anyone concerned that Hamels got shelled again?

  • http://www.phonetrace.org Griswold

    Father Time spanked the yanks

  • will.H

    Eric, Charlie Manuel is smarter than you. The End.

  • will.H

    “If you really don’t like him {kendrick} that much, trade him for a solid bullpen arm or something”

    General Manager is a foreign word, i see. That’s insane.

  • http://www.thesportsbrewery.com meerkat

    Simple logic.

    Keep the veteran that all the young guys love and fans love — until he’s got absolutely nothin more to give, literally. Why? Because once you establish he’s done, he must retire, can’t really send him to the minors right? But the young guy, say Kendrick, you can dangle around until the old guy can’t cut it no more.

    So Moyer has the 5th spot until he shows he’s brutal. Which will be early into the regular season … Kendrick will get the ball as the 5th guy, rightfully so. All will be okay from there on.

    Not a big deal, we just need a .500 avg from the 5th guy throughout the season. With a mix of vets and call-ups … this should be do-able.

    Phillies 2010 NL Champs

  • Watrick

    It’s theFightins dot com versus the Natinals…. I mean Nation, let’s go!

  • Morandini Turned Three

    There’s another option…..news this morning is that Seattle is looking for another starter since Lee and Bedard are hurting. Send Jamie Home!

  • Watrick

    I thought he moved to Florida so his kids could be herded into sports.

  • Eric

    Charlie Manuel isn’t smarter than the 9 year old inner city school child that I tutor. I’m pretty sure Manuel is missing a chromosome. But why am I being told he’s smarter than me?

  • World Forker Champion ’11

    Hey, maybe we can send RAULLL and Moyer back to Seattle for Milton Bradley!

    The Phillies haven’t had a clubhouse cancer in a while after all!

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Bradley has had his problems in the past but I think he’s going to bounce back big this year. Obviously he’s had his problems in the past, but the recent stuff is reputation more than anything — umpires are pretty much out to get him at this point.

  • Eric

    Phylan I hope and pray you are j/king!

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    I’m not, in the slightest. Even in his down year, which included a significant drop off in power, he still posted a .378 OBP — 4th among qualified Cubs. Only 4 players on the Cubs were making less outs than he is. With his plate discipline, he’ll be a a very valuable player if his power returns, and I (and most of the projections) think it will. All he has to do is post a SLG in the low .400s and he’ll have around an .800 OPS. And the Cubs traded that for Carlos fucking Silva, who is awful. Hendry is an idiot if he thinks the biggest problem on his team is anything other than the fact that they’re paying money to Alfonso Soriano.

    As far as the reputation thing, umpires are gigantic, retarded children, and I’m not kidding. I don’t think anyone will disagree about this. They operate on reputation, and they have a quick trigger with guys like Bradley if they even perceive for a second that they and their precious egos are being “shown up.” The thing that got Bradley ejected in ST was him dropping his bat on the plate and taking off his gloves after a K, because he thought the inning was over. The umpire threw him out. Wakamatsu stood by Bradley on that one also. By all accounts, he’s fitting in well in Seattle, and Griffey always seems to bring out the lighter side of guys. I think that will end up being one of the dumbest trades of the offseason, without question.

  • Eric

    Of course his reputation gives the umpires a quick trigger. We can all pretend that there are people we consider to be infallible and of sound mind, but every body is still a human. When you act like an ignorant asshole your whole life, people are quick to treat you as such. Look at the way anything I say gets treated on here. If I try to raise any point, people just assume I’m being a prick and I’m up to no good. Normally they are right, but not always.

    Numbers aside, you couldn’t give me enough money to put Milton on my team. You and I do not see baseball in the same spectrum, not even a little. Your a numbers guy, which is fine, but this is a classic example of addition by subtraction. The Cubs have just as much to gain in the clubhouse by trading Bradley as they do in losing production on the field. You will never buy this theory, and that’s fine, but I simply want to make you cognizant of the counter argument you are likely to hear. It’s one that I do firmly believe in.

    The guy is a distraction and a fucking lunatic. Even if you believe his excuse that he thought the inning was over, he’s made that mistake in a game before. That’s either a really bad sign for his focus or he’s a fucking idiot. Anybody who would do that once is falling out of favor with me, but repeatedly.. come on. And there’s other documented incidents of his bullshit. But, by all means, keep drinking the Seattle kool-aide, I’m sure they have nothing to gain by trying to talk him up.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Zdurencik and Wakamatsu know this too; just saw a tweet that he’ll hit cleanup for the Ms this year. I’m not saying he was a smart signing for the Cubs in the first place — mainly because he’s not really viable at a non-DH position — but Hendry unloaded him for terrible value for all the wrong reasons.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Haha, the “Seattle kool-aid,” nice.

    Anyway, if I were a GM I’d be praying the rest of my counterparts all thought like you did, because it always results in a bunch of undervalued guys getting dumped for nothing, to the benefit of people that don’t get wrapped up in all that “chemistry” horseshit. You can keep your David Ecksteins and what not.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Oh, and by the way, if you’re so sold on the notion that Hendry added via subtraction in getting rid of horrible terrible clubhouse cancer Milton Bradley, you might want to read up on Carlos Silva

  • Eric

    The fuck does clubhouse chemistry have to do with talent level? You’re right, only David Eckstein is good for the clubhouse. Howard, Utley, Rollins, Werth, Raul, Halladay are all cancers. Great point there.

    Bradley is a distraction who has a sizable contract and could be considered an above-average ball player at best. As a general manager who has to consider that I would be running a business, no, I don’t want a guy who cannot remember the number of fucking outs, is terrible with the media, can play outfield just alright, and has a little pop. Sorry, I would rather invest in any other position at half the headache. If a guy is difficult, fine, but make it worth the trouble. Fuck Milton Bradley.

  • http://twitter.com/lonettomb maxL

    Then again, Carlos “Lard-ass” Silva is the alternative. Hmmph.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    I said nothing of the sort about any of the Phillies that you listed, of course, but you knew that. My point is that by placing such a ridiculous emphasis on such an unquantifiable thing, a lot of talented and underrated players are going to slip through the cracks. Prior to his down year last year, Bradley slugged .545 and .563 in 2007 and 2008 respectively, so he has more than “a little pop.” Not to mention a career .371 OBP.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    If Jayson Werth talked shit to the media, got ejected a whole bunch, and didn’t get along with anyone in the clubhouse, I would gladly take him on my team, and laugh all of the way to winning the division past your nice cuddly bunch of character guys.

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    Well there has to be a balance between character and talent. At which point, you have to look and see if the talent is worth dealing with someone like Bradley.

  • World Forker Champion ’11

    By the way, in case nobody got it…I was kidding about trading Moyer and Raul for Bradley, although I wouldn’t be completely against trading them for the right offer.

    As far as Bradley is concerned, he’s a douchebag who just so happens to also be a decent ballplayer. Would I want him on the Phillies? Not really, unless it was on some sort of cheap ass deal where we could cut him if he fucked up the team chemistry too badly.

  • Eric

    Phylan, you need to give up on the “cuddle guy” argument. You are badly skewing the argument to the point of absurdity and you know it. There’s a risk and a reward with every player you sign. If they are talented and they are of good character, then it’s a good signing. If they are a good player and a real jerkoff, the move will be questioned more. It’s that simple. I’m going to assume that two years ago you would have loved picking up Bonds because of his numbers? Is that really a guy you want to cheer for every night. Manny Ramirez in LF wouldn’t drive you nuts? You kindly ignored the point that it is still a business and business decisions have to be made. You have to factor in the good will of your business and the cost or detriment to the organization and city as a whole when you make questionable moves.

    I’m not even suggesting Milton Bradley is the worst guy in the league, by a long shot. He has some offensive pop, and the Mariners are certainly going to need it. I just worry that during the next 9 months, he’s just going to attract the wrong attention to a team still working to completely turn the franchise around. He’s quickly worn out his welcome in numerous cities, and now he’s just saying everybody is out to get him. Maybe he should grow up and accept some responsibility for the bad things that have happened to him. The only thing his comments show me is that he is paranoid and on the verge of causing more trouble. So no, while that isn’t quantifiable, it’s clear that he is disruptive and a problem for teams. You use numbers, I use evidence.

  • James Fayleez

    I like that our team is so good, we’re only arguing about the 5TH STARTER.

    Stop nitpicking and get ready for opening day.

  • Steve Jeltz

    All this pointless talk about Milton Bradley talk got me soo angry that I just threw a chair at my secretary

  • http://twitter.com/j_tee_r Jdashdog

    Phylan and Eric should just elope already

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    The only reason I would’ve hesitated on Bonds two years ago is because his knees were about ready to explode; no, I wouldn’t have any problems rooting for him, and San Francisco didn’t either. He is possibly the best hitter ever to play the game not named “Ruth.” And no, I would have no qualms rooting for Manny either, although he is another age concern at this point.

    And numbers ARE evidence. The difference is numbers are objective (albeit subject to the biases of those who use them), and you’re doing a lot of guesswork when you try to figure out how much impact Milton Bradley being a jerk has on his team. If Milton blows up the clubhouse and the Mariners are in the AL West basement in June, you can say “I told you so,” but I think all they’ll get out of Bradley is some cheap production.

  • will.H

    winning and losing also impacts the ‘clubhouse cancer’ debate. If a team is winning, these knuckleheads are less likely to be a problem. It’s not until their own frustration is displayed do they bring down the team with their nonsense. Sort of like Milton in San Diego back in 07. I’m sure you guys can think of other instances too.

    Although to support the other guy real quick (barf), the Phillies didn’t flourish until they got rid of that piece of shit Billy Wagner, who has been known to cause problems with his stupid mouth.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Yeah, but that’s kind of my issue with the “clubhouse cancer” stuff. You can say the Phillies never flourished until they got rid of Wagner, but wouldn’t that have more to do with the fact that, when they dumped Wagner, Utley was entering his second full season after a great 2005, Howard was entering his first full season after winning Rookie of the Year, Hamels was arriving, etc.? There are so many more tangible factors besides the fact that Billy Wagner was a prick, and was no longer on the team.

  • will.H

    phylan that’s if the argument is: clubhouse cancer is the only thing that makes a team suck.

    nah i just think it contributes.. even if its slightly. thats why i think winning and losing has a lot to do with it. When a bad clubhouse guy starts to act all natural when they’re losing, he’s just throwing gas on the fire to make it out of control. so he’s a contributor, but not the source itself. I still agree with you.. the clubhouse cancer thing gets blown out of proportion and exploited since everyone thinks they can identify the problem so clearly–bradley, TO, marbury.

  • Eric

    Charlie Manuel loves his team and loves his players. But “every team has guys,” he says, “who you’ve gotta watch, because they like the attention and all of a sudden, the game starts to become more about them than the team and winning the game. Well, the game is the No. 1 priority. … But guys will forget sometimes. They’ll get caught up in who they are. And that’s not good.”

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Not sure what you’re going for with the Manuel quote

  • The Lone Filafel

    We should have traded Cliff Lee for Milton Bradley.

  • Eric

    Sorry I didn’t just post Bradley’s vorp, slugging percentage, OBP, walks, strikeouts, hits, doubles, and runs and then rest on that point alone like you’d like me to. Clearly, Manuel believes character has something to do with a player’s value, but I suppose I should just trust you that it doesn’t. What team is it that you’re running again? I’m sure your fantasy team is nastyyyyyy again this year.

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    Haha, I figured it would come to that eventually. I’m sure that running a baseball team is incredibly difficult and I would be irredeemably terrible at it, but that doesn’t mean a Charlie Manuel quote is some kind of trump card. I’m sure massive egos abound in the clubhouse, but I don’t think the 2007 Phillies would’ve missed the playoffs if, say, they had a loudmouthed pitcher who beat his wife and called members of the press names.

  • Eric

    Nooooooooo the point is that character is just another factor in making any personnel decision. You contend it is not worth considering and I say it is, backed up by ONE CHARLIE MANUEL!! It wasn’t my strongest point, but I was reading the Stark article and it struck me as relevant. Sorry for contributing one other man’s opinion.

    On the Myers point, I’m actually surprised he stuck around as long as he did. After he hit wifey, he had to be on thin ice. I think his inconsistent performances actually kept him around. He would be good for stretches and the fans/media would cut him some slack. Then he would look terrible and people would call for his head. That was one relationship always on edge. It was certainly time to see him depart.

  • Eric

    Oh, and JDash, go fuck yourself. Phylan and I sincerely apologize for having an intelligent baseball discussion. Let’s go back to talking about chooch and ice cream, LOLOLOL.

  • http://twitter.com/j_tee_r Jdashdog

    Eric, one man’s intelligent baseball discussion is another’s self-important, prolonged outburst of bitter, outspoken denunciation

  • http://www.firerubenamaro.net Phylan

    I do not endorse Eric’s request that you have sex with yourself, for the record, and I was considering eloping before Eric appeared so clearly against it.

  • Johnny Hotcakes

    ” You contend it is not worth considering and I say it is, backed up by ONE CHARLIE MANUEL!”

    Eric, it’s awesome when, in an attempt to prove your point, you refer to a guy who “isn’t smarter than the 9 year old inner city school child that (you) tutor”.

  • Johnny Hotcakes

    Also, give us the name and address of this kid. We want PROOF, son. Or my name’s not Johnny Hotcakes, seller of the best Hotcakes in South Jersey, since 1978.

  • World Forker Champion ’11

    Oh, can you 2 get a damn room already!

    Kidding, but yeah I think that losing has a lot to do with the spreading of a clubhouse cancer. Schilling could be called a clubhouse cancer, but we all loved that jackass back when he was with the Phillies, and he had a lot to do with our success back in 1993.

    When a team sucks ass, it gives the clubhouse cancer guys (Schilling,Rolen,Wagner) more to bitch about than if we were actually winning games and having meaningful seasons.

  • http://twitter.com/j_tee_r Jdashdog

    Phylan, I like you, I do. I think you’re extremely knowledgable on the sport and although I generally feel you’re a little too sabermetric-centric I apprecite some of the insight you bring to both the comment section here and on your blog.

  • Eric

    @ johnny – My use of it here and the way I made light of it was an attempt to use a half hearted argument/joke concoction and not to use it as scientific proof. It’s certainly hypocritical of me, and I was cognizant of that when I posted it. I do think Manuel is an idiot, I mean that’s hard to argue against. His speeches make me want to slit my throat, but he’s charming and I love him anyway. I used his quote to show that it’s something people (managers) consider character to be somewhat important to the dynamic of a ball club. If it’s hypocritical of me, so be it. Like I said, I saw the quote and thought it would add a little to the discussion. I certainly wasn’t going to premise my argument on a Charlie Manuel quote.

    I like that JDash had to agree with me but do so on the smallest scale possible. Why does this have to be a prolonged outburst? Isn’t the point of commenting to continue commenting? Would you prefer I use the message board to create funny pictures out of well-organized letters and symbols? Would that ease your simple mind?

  • http://www.superfantabulousblog.blogspot.com maria

    The way he speaks isn’t a direct reflection on his intelligence.

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